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	<title>Comments on: Where are the web obsessed South African developers ? (Part 1)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.mihswat.com/2008/10/14/where-are-the-web-obsessed-south-african-developers-part-1/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.mihswat.com/2008/10/14/where-are-the-web-obsessed-south-african-developers-part-1/</link>
	<description>MIH SWAT - the official blog of MIH's Strategic Worldwide Applications and Technology Team.</description>
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		<title>By: Figo Mago</title>
		<link>http://www.mihswat.com/2008/10/14/where-are-the-web-obsessed-south-african-developers-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-4023</link>
		<dc:creator>Figo Mago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 11:11:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mihswat.com/?p=238#comment-4023</guid>
		<description>I had already posted this when I saw your latest announcement on the SWATLabs website (http://swatlabs.net/).

A step in the right direction. But I still think you don&#039;t fully get it (IMHO), but what do I know anyway? :P All the best with your initiatives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had already posted this when I saw your latest announcement on the SWATLabs website (<a href="http://swatlabs.net/" rel="nofollow">http://swatlabs.net/</a>).</p>
<p>A step in the right direction. But I still think you don&#8217;t fully get it (IMHO), but what do I know anyway? <img src='http://www.mihswat.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' />  All the best with your initiatives.</p>
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		<title>By: Figo Mago</title>
		<link>http://www.mihswat.com/2008/10/14/where-are-the-web-obsessed-south-african-developers-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-4022</link>
		<dc:creator>Figo Mago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 10:55:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mihswat.com/?p=238#comment-4022</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s a thought. I know it has already been mentioned once or twice in the previous comments:

MIH should consider being more open about the super-cool stuff that they are pioneering (note the word pioneering, not cloning).

Working on Twitter clones and the equivalent of anything that already exists (e.g. Facebook, digg, ebay), whether in China, Eastern Europe or Brazil simply won&#039;t attract the talent that you are looking for. These types are too smart for that and there are many star programmers who make (excellent) twitter clones and such stuff as hobby projects. Why do they need you for that?

Show them an exciting concept, direction or product that you are working on they haven&#039;t seen or heard of before and be loud about it.

Show them your pioneering efforts. They will come in droves.

Also, don&#039;t discount the youngsters who are not even out of high school yet. You&#039;d be surprised at how many would run circles around University graduates. (e.g. Firefox is the brainchild of 14 year old Blake Ross. Thank goodness he was&#039;nt lugging around the cranial weight of Six-Sigma and the concept of SDLC conventions - otherwise we&#039;d all be stuck with the 2001 version on Internet Explorer /* shudders */)

I think you&#039;re on to something good here, but lumping it under opaque &quot;corporate goodness&quot; speak is just not going to attract the Rockstars you seek.

They have no interest in convention, and the fact that you&#039;re a spinoff of a print publication giant does not help your cause either (we all know where that section of the industry is headed). 

It raises questions, especially about just how much of the corporate &quot;old guard&quot; mentality has filtered down into your unit. So you&#039;re at a slight disadvantage because of that, meaning you&#039;ll need make more of an effort to distance yourselves from that stigma and make it really attractive for stars to want to associate themselves with you. Take some pages from Google, Apple and Silicon Valley culture for inspiration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a thought. I know it has already been mentioned once or twice in the previous comments:</p>
<p>MIH should consider being more open about the super-cool stuff that they are pioneering (note the word pioneering, not cloning).</p>
<p>Working on Twitter clones and the equivalent of anything that already exists (e.g. Facebook, digg, ebay), whether in China, Eastern Europe or Brazil simply won&#8217;t attract the talent that you are looking for. These types are too smart for that and there are many star programmers who make (excellent) twitter clones and such stuff as hobby projects. Why do they need you for that?</p>
<p>Show them an exciting concept, direction or product that you are working on they haven&#8217;t seen or heard of before and be loud about it.</p>
<p>Show them your pioneering efforts. They will come in droves.</p>
<p>Also, don&#8217;t discount the youngsters who are not even out of high school yet. You&#8217;d be surprised at how many would run circles around University graduates. (e.g. Firefox is the brainchild of 14 year old Blake Ross. Thank goodness he was&#8217;nt lugging around the cranial weight of Six-Sigma and the concept of SDLC conventions &#8211; otherwise we&#8217;d all be stuck with the 2001 version on Internet Explorer /* shudders */)</p>
<p>I think you&#8217;re on to something good here, but lumping it under opaque &#8220;corporate goodness&#8221; speak is just not going to attract the Rockstars you seek.</p>
<p>They have no interest in convention, and the fact that you&#8217;re a spinoff of a print publication giant does not help your cause either (we all know where that section of the industry is headed). </p>
<p>It raises questions, especially about just how much of the corporate &#8220;old guard&#8221; mentality has filtered down into your unit. So you&#8217;re at a slight disadvantage because of that, meaning you&#8217;ll need make more of an effort to distance yourselves from that stigma and make it really attractive for stars to want to associate themselves with you. Take some pages from Google, Apple and Silicon Valley culture for inspiration.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Smit</title>
		<link>http://www.mihswat.com/2008/10/14/where-are-the-web-obsessed-south-african-developers-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-1969</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Smit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 12:05:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mihswat.com/?p=238#comment-1969</guid>
		<description>The search for rockstars is major a challenge in South Africa. Cultural and political aspects play a large role in this dilemma. The one of the cultural aspects are, as mentioned, is that a lot of developers or any educated person takes a clear and defined career route. Why is this? As South Africans or myself even more as an Afrikaans South African, are under the assumption that we must work hard to work for someone else and we will get a very clear description of what is expected of us. I am a web designer; I design websites for the company’s clients according to their specifications while still following company policy. What is wrong with this way of thinking? 
Firstly there is no entrepreneurial spirit in statement “work hard to get a job”. Yes as developer you have to work hard on improving your skills, but not solely improve your skills to get more money. This is the second point, money is important yes, but there is also no real personal satisfaction in it. A developer should be inspired by himself and a potential company to work harder. The culture in South Africa is, get maximum payment even if I am not inspired by my job.

So where can we change our culture? Or what can business do to inspire a developer? One of the things that I find at university is that yes it teaches you how to learn, how to be analytical and my particular course exposes me to a lot of different fields of expertise. The problem I have is that it does not feel as if I am making a contribution to the academic field. A project is just another project to pass a module. There is no prize for exceeding really or recognition. As you might know, most university student aim for 50% and nothing more. This means you are only 50% capable of doing something. In schools however, the one I came from, students excelled more as they wanted to be guaranteed to get university acceptance. Why do companies not make it clearer that 50% is not enough? A 50% student will not even dare to send his CV to Google. Why? A culture in Google has been established, you are the best if you work there. A lot of the satisfaction comes from working for Google as well because of this culture.

Back to the problem, what can your company possibly do as recruitment and simple job advertisements do not work. Advertise a problem for the specific developer you are targeting. Only developers that pass the problem can progress for the job. Only developer whom are truly inspired, whom have the right personality and skills will attempt this problem. Goodbye 50%-students. This is a great way to advertise your company’s culture as a place for rockstars. You have awesome companies like Tencent, why not advertise it. It is an marketing in itself like Google and Facebook. 

Advertise Tencent’s achievements like Google does with applications. Some of these applications are not completely functional, but it shows the developer community that they are continuously busy inventing and trying new ideas. They are not a stagnant company.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The search for rockstars is major a challenge in South Africa. Cultural and political aspects play a large role in this dilemma. The one of the cultural aspects are, as mentioned, is that a lot of developers or any educated person takes a clear and defined career route. Why is this? As South Africans or myself even more as an Afrikaans South African, are under the assumption that we must work hard to work for someone else and we will get a very clear description of what is expected of us. I am a web designer; I design websites for the company’s clients according to their specifications while still following company policy. What is wrong with this way of thinking?<br />
Firstly there is no entrepreneurial spirit in statement “work hard to get a job”. Yes as developer you have to work hard on improving your skills, but not solely improve your skills to get more money. This is the second point, money is important yes, but there is also no real personal satisfaction in it. A developer should be inspired by himself and a potential company to work harder. The culture in South Africa is, get maximum payment even if I am not inspired by my job.</p>
<p>So where can we change our culture? Or what can business do to inspire a developer? One of the things that I find at university is that yes it teaches you how to learn, how to be analytical and my particular course exposes me to a lot of different fields of expertise. The problem I have is that it does not feel as if I am making a contribution to the academic field. A project is just another project to pass a module. There is no prize for exceeding really or recognition. As you might know, most university student aim for 50% and nothing more. This means you are only 50% capable of doing something. In schools however, the one I came from, students excelled more as they wanted to be guaranteed to get university acceptance. Why do companies not make it clearer that 50% is not enough? A 50% student will not even dare to send his CV to Google. Why? A culture in Google has been established, you are the best if you work there. A lot of the satisfaction comes from working for Google as well because of this culture.</p>
<p>Back to the problem, what can your company possibly do as recruitment and simple job advertisements do not work. Advertise a problem for the specific developer you are targeting. Only developers that pass the problem can progress for the job. Only developer whom are truly inspired, whom have the right personality and skills will attempt this problem. Goodbye 50%-students. This is a great way to advertise your company’s culture as a place for rockstars. You have awesome companies like Tencent, why not advertise it. It is an marketing in itself like Google and Facebook. </p>
<p>Advertise Tencent’s achievements like Google does with applications. Some of these applications are not completely functional, but it shows the developer community that they are continuously busy inventing and trying new ideas. They are not a stagnant company.</p>
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		<title>By: boNCE</title>
		<link>http://www.mihswat.com/2008/10/14/where-are-the-web-obsessed-south-african-developers-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-146</link>
		<dc:creator>boNCE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 22:39:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mihswat.com/?p=238#comment-146</guid>
		<description>Not to offend anyone in particular but generally South Africans think they the most gifted developers in the world. Yet most application desktop and web don&#039;t work have many bugs. Recruiters and software comps alike think that developers are great becouse they answer technical question correctly such as what is an interface, what is inheritance etc, yet most of those who answer corretcly are incapable of programmin an app. Too much emphasis on theory. I could ask 100&#039;s of question on dot.net and the best of the so defined best would not be able to answer. In dot.net the help files are well over many gigs... can anyone remember all in it? I don&#039;t think so. Over and above in the past many method did not have specific names today all have a name and abbreviation but these are basically the same thinngs: wrapping something dosen&#039;t make a new thing. I went to interviews over the years and was bombarded with test, questionnaires etc done by some who only new those question and answers and nothing else. Yet I have been in dev for about 20 years and developed apps which South Africans companies and developers could not get anywhere near its sofistication, logic and speed and made me a rich man. Yet don&#039;t ask about abstract, inheritance or crap like that as I use it daily but never bothered at what it was called. Just not interested. The reason why these questionnaire are asked in my opinion is that SA so called architects or IT managers have to justify the f.ups they make they knowledge in front of they bosses for their theortic utopia (thats what I call abstract). This elements most likely spend 90% of their times at Microsoft conferences and blogs but never developed and most are unqualified to even be called Software Architects.  I contracted most years fixing the crap SA devs/architects did. But they had a carbon copy memory of the meaning of most terms. Thanks to them there is an internet a www &#039;cause of the free code available for them to copy to then brag saying they wrote it! Just like some even told me and are convinced that Ferraris are made in Port Elizabeth! Believe or not its true. Example G5 spends millions on software every year yet everything runs on Excel sheets! Kalula brags abouts they devs knowledge yet msot things work on and off not to mention they still pass params exposed to all the address bar! I can go on and on. Like the big shot at Oracle said at Oxford: most succesfull people have no degrees, those who do end working for a max of 1/2 million per year. I have no degree and look where I am. If you doing your first year leave now! If at the third year you lost!
Good devs work and succeed for themselves and developed till they die. The rest work for the above mentioned companies!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not to offend anyone in particular but generally South Africans think they the most gifted developers in the world. Yet most application desktop and web don&#8217;t work have many bugs. Recruiters and software comps alike think that developers are great becouse they answer technical question correctly such as what is an interface, what is inheritance etc, yet most of those who answer corretcly are incapable of programmin an app. Too much emphasis on theory. I could ask 100&#8217;s of question on dot.net and the best of the so defined best would not be able to answer. In dot.net the help files are well over many gigs&#8230; can anyone remember all in it? I don&#8217;t think so. Over and above in the past many method did not have specific names today all have a name and abbreviation but these are basically the same thinngs: wrapping something dosen&#8217;t make a new thing. I went to interviews over the years and was bombarded with test, questionnaires etc done by some who only new those question and answers and nothing else. Yet I have been in dev for about 20 years and developed apps which South Africans companies and developers could not get anywhere near its sofistication, logic and speed and made me a rich man. Yet don&#8217;t ask about abstract, inheritance or crap like that as I use it daily but never bothered at what it was called. Just not interested. The reason why these questionnaire are asked in my opinion is that SA so called architects or IT managers have to justify the f.ups they make they knowledge in front of they bosses for their theortic utopia (thats what I call abstract). This elements most likely spend 90% of their times at Microsoft conferences and blogs but never developed and most are unqualified to even be called Software Architects.  I contracted most years fixing the crap SA devs/architects did. But they had a carbon copy memory of the meaning of most terms. Thanks to them there is an internet a www &#8217;cause of the free code available for them to copy to then brag saying they wrote it! Just like some even told me and are convinced that Ferraris are made in Port Elizabeth! Believe or not its true. Example G5 spends millions on software every year yet everything runs on Excel sheets! Kalula brags abouts they devs knowledge yet msot things work on and off not to mention they still pass params exposed to all the address bar! I can go on and on. Like the big shot at Oracle said at Oxford: most succesfull people have no degrees, those who do end working for a max of 1/2 million per year. I have no degree and look where I am. If you doing your first year leave now! If at the third year you lost!<br />
Good devs work and succeed for themselves and developed till they die. The rest work for the above mentioned companies!</p>
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		<title>By: Christo V</title>
		<link>http://www.mihswat.com/2008/10/14/where-are-the-web-obsessed-south-african-developers-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-110</link>
		<dc:creator>Christo V</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 12:10:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mihswat.com/?p=238#comment-110</guid>
		<description>Before I start...I didn&#039;t read all the comments, so I&#039;m not replying or responding to any of what had already been said. There is also the risk that what I&#039;m going to say, has already been said. So, I&#039;ll keep it short. 

The problem Jacques described (absence of Rock Star developers in SA) is directly linked to the fact that the internet has really not &quot;arrived&quot; in SA yet. It might be in a few hundred thousand households, but even in these households it has not really and properly &quot;arrived&quot; yet. Very few in SA &quot;live&quot; the internet. Like the people do in Europe. Night and day. Internet this, internet that. Here life revolves around the internet. In all households. 

The statistics show that internet penetration and use by the SA community is still comparatively low. I look at this fact every weekend, when I peruse the Google Adsense user reports of my blog and see how &quot;non-existent&quot; South Africa still is in the world when it comes to internet consumption. Already on Fridays the visitor stats from SA drops down to almost nil (as people leave offices early to go on their long weekends). No-one surfs from home over weekends (I mean in SA...the rest of the world stays connected!)

On Mondays the numbers pick up noticably slower from SA than from other places in the world. In short, SA is not an internet country (yet). (Work ethic is a topic for another day! And I don&#039;t want to make foes here...) 

Why is that the case? No, it has nothing to do with race. (Caught you out, heh?)

It has to do with Telkom and the fact that the state has had a monopoly on communications infrastructure and service for most of the last years - and still practically has. 

In Germany competition has seen several upgrades of broadband speed in the last 8 years (since I came here) and everytime the connection became faster, it became cheaper, as more people are interested and get hooked. Cheaper brings more, again. And so there has been a &quot;virtuous cycle&quot; at work here, which quickly turned the internet into culture and put it in the centre of life - business life, private life, every facet of life. 

This still has to happen in SA. And will in the next 5 or so years, I think, thanks to Joe Venter and Google&#039;s satellite initiative etc.  

Affordability, speed, stability of connections - all of these things will really introduce the people of SA to the internet in the following few years. And link Africa together in a single community as never before. And it&#039;s not impossible that the internet penetration rates can one day equal the penetration rates of cell phones in SA. We all know how high that is...

Until the internet hasn&#039;t arrived in SA, there won&#039;t be &quot;begeesterde&quot; &quot;rock-star-type&quot; developers in SA. 

Blame it all on Telkom and the monopoly the state gave Telkom shortly before Naspers went into the internet with a bang in 1998 (not to speak about hundreds of millions of rands).

Of course, the clever guys at Naspers should have foreseen this problem, before spending all that money, but that is (also) a topic for another day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Before I start&#8230;I didn&#8217;t read all the comments, so I&#8217;m not replying or responding to any of what had already been said. There is also the risk that what I&#8217;m going to say, has already been said. So, I&#8217;ll keep it short. </p>
<p>The problem Jacques described (absence of Rock Star developers in SA) is directly linked to the fact that the internet has really not &#8220;arrived&#8221; in SA yet. It might be in a few hundred thousand households, but even in these households it has not really and properly &#8220;arrived&#8221; yet. Very few in SA &#8220;live&#8221; the internet. Like the people do in Europe. Night and day. Internet this, internet that. Here life revolves around the internet. In all households. </p>
<p>The statistics show that internet penetration and use by the SA community is still comparatively low. I look at this fact every weekend, when I peruse the Google Adsense user reports of my blog and see how &#8220;non-existent&#8221; South Africa still is in the world when it comes to internet consumption. Already on Fridays the visitor stats from SA drops down to almost nil (as people leave offices early to go on their long weekends). No-one surfs from home over weekends (I mean in SA&#8230;the rest of the world stays connected!)</p>
<p>On Mondays the numbers pick up noticably slower from SA than from other places in the world. In short, SA is not an internet country (yet). (Work ethic is a topic for another day! And I don&#8217;t want to make foes here&#8230;) </p>
<p>Why is that the case? No, it has nothing to do with race. (Caught you out, heh?)</p>
<p>It has to do with Telkom and the fact that the state has had a monopoly on communications infrastructure and service for most of the last years &#8211; and still practically has. </p>
<p>In Germany competition has seen several upgrades of broadband speed in the last 8 years (since I came here) and everytime the connection became faster, it became cheaper, as more people are interested and get hooked. Cheaper brings more, again. And so there has been a &#8220;virtuous cycle&#8221; at work here, which quickly turned the internet into culture and put it in the centre of life &#8211; business life, private life, every facet of life. </p>
<p>This still has to happen in SA. And will in the next 5 or so years, I think, thanks to Joe Venter and Google&#8217;s satellite initiative etc.  </p>
<p>Affordability, speed, stability of connections &#8211; all of these things will really introduce the people of SA to the internet in the following few years. And link Africa together in a single community as never before. And it&#8217;s not impossible that the internet penetration rates can one day equal the penetration rates of cell phones in SA. We all know how high that is&#8230;</p>
<p>Until the internet hasn&#8217;t arrived in SA, there won&#8217;t be &#8220;begeesterde&#8221; &#8220;rock-star-type&#8221; developers in SA. </p>
<p>Blame it all on Telkom and the monopoly the state gave Telkom shortly before Naspers went into the internet with a bang in 1998 (not to speak about hundreds of millions of rands).</p>
<p>Of course, the clever guys at Naspers should have foreseen this problem, before spending all that money, but that is (also) a topic for another day.</p>
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		<title>By: Perceptions of education in South Africa.. &#124; Gustible</title>
		<link>http://www.mihswat.com/2008/10/14/where-are-the-web-obsessed-south-african-developers-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-88</link>
		<dc:creator>Perceptions of education in South Africa.. &#124; Gustible</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 14:20:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mihswat.com/?p=238#comment-88</guid>
		<description>[...] recently posted an article on our experience of recruiting developers in South Africa, on our team&#8217;s [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] recently posted an article on our experience of recruiting developers in South Africa, on our team&#8217;s [...]</p>
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		<title>By: datazoo</title>
		<link>http://www.mihswat.com/2008/10/14/where-are-the-web-obsessed-south-african-developers-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-83</link>
		<dc:creator>datazoo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 14:46:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mihswat.com/?p=238#comment-83</guid>
		<description>Maybe I missed something, but where is the Jobs/Carrer link on your website if you are looking desperately for developers?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe I missed something, but where is the Jobs/Carrer link on your website if you are looking desperately for developers?</p>
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		<title>By: blade</title>
		<link>http://www.mihswat.com/2008/10/14/where-are-the-web-obsessed-south-african-developers-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-82</link>
		<dc:creator>blade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 11:36:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mihswat.com/?p=238#comment-82</guid>
		<description>where are we??
we are too busy compensating for the skill shortage up in this mofo.
&quot;igad brain&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>where are we??<br />
we are too busy compensating for the skill shortage up in this mofo.<br />
&#8220;igad brain&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Wogan</title>
		<link>http://www.mihswat.com/2008/10/14/where-are-the-web-obsessed-south-african-developers-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-81</link>
		<dc:creator>Wogan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 10:22:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mihswat.com/?p=238#comment-81</guid>
		<description>@Jacques At this point, MIH might as well be MIB with a typo. All i know of MIH was shown to me in a private conference. You guys aren&#039;t big on ground-level social interaction in SA, are you? :)

But yes, @herman_smith, they mean what they say with &quot;awesome&quot; projects, and not &quot;awesome&quot; in the traditional corporate kind of way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jacques At this point, MIH might as well be MIB with a typo. All i know of MIH was shown to me in a private conference. You guys aren&#8217;t big on ground-level social interaction in SA, are you? <img src='http://www.mihswat.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>But yes, @herman_smith, they mean what they say with &#8220;awesome&#8221; projects, and not &#8220;awesome&#8221; in the traditional corporate kind of way.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques van Niekerk</title>
		<link>http://www.mihswat.com/2008/10/14/where-are-the-web-obsessed-south-african-developers-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-80</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques van Niekerk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 09:15:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mihswat.com/?p=238#comment-80</guid>
		<description>@herman_smith I can just repeat what I said - we can offer that job: AWESOME projects, 20% time, South African based. We just need the right people to put up their hands...and yes, we will raise our profile.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@herman_smith I can just repeat what I said &#8211; we can offer that job: AWESOME projects, 20% time, South African based. We just need the right people to put up their hands&#8230;and yes, we will raise our profile.</p>
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